TaPod - We Talk Talent Acquisition.

Ep 36 - Mike Beeley - Everything you want to know about Employee & Candidate messaging in times of crisis.

April 06, 2020 Craig, Lauren & Mike Season 2 Episode 36
TaPod - We Talk Talent Acquisition.
Ep 36 - Mike Beeley - Everything you want to know about Employee & Candidate messaging in times of crisis.
TaPod - We Talk Talent Acquisition.
Ep 36 - Mike Beeley - Everything you want to know about Employee & Candidate messaging in times of crisis.
Apr 06, 2020 Season 2 Episode 36
Craig, Lauren & Mike

Join Lauren and Craig as they sit down with Mike Beeley - CEO at Lightbox Communications.
This is one of the most fascinating interviews Tapod has had the privilege of conducting... From quoting Churchill... to understanding EVP in the current climate... to understanding that 'creativity is the Art of disguising your source'... this one has it all!

Show Notes Transcript

Join Lauren and Craig as they sit down with Mike Beeley - CEO at Lightbox Communications.
This is one of the most fascinating interviews Tapod has had the privilege of conducting... From quoting Churchill... to understanding EVP in the current climate... to understanding that 'creativity is the Art of disguising your source'... this one has it all!

spk_1:   0:00
wait A podcast for everything. Telling acquisition. We're informative, controversial and a little bit crazy. Now, please join your hosts and industry leaders Lauren Shop and Craig Watson. Hi, everyone. Welcome to Tar Pot. I'm Craig and I'm Lauren. And today we have got the wonderful might believe the CEO of light box communications dialling in from Sydney. Welcome, Mike. Great. Thank you. There's enjoying our little bit of isolation and locked down here in the cold. Melbourne Day is a bit chilly before we

spk_2:   0:48
sort of move on with the discussion today. Why don't you just give us a quick background on your career and how you started in what you're doing? How your alignment. I know that you work across broad industries, but how your alignment might refer to town acquisition or equipment as well, and just give us a night idea of who you are and what you're doing.

spk_0:   1:07

spk_1:   1:07

spk_0:   1:14
so yes, this is our business. We referred to as many things employer marketing, recruit of marketing, EVP, EVP development. It's essentially an HR communications business where we help we help companies understand what it is they should be saying to their existing staff how the message is. Look what they can and can't promised what they need to promise to remain competitive and given talent marketplace on how to retain and then attracts the right people.

spk_2:   1:43
On a time it'd be even more compelling. The type of work that you're doing

spk_0:   1:48
well, E would like to think it. It becomes more critical attempted, but it is always critical. Thie needs to engage with chain and attract the best possible talent in your given market. Never drops off the top five list of things to do it leadership level. It's always one of the most important things we do. An organisation is making sure we have the light human capital scared on, aimed in the right direction towards customers and a customer expectations, so that at times like this changes shape, we need to focus on slightly different things when we would do, perhaps in a time of obvious challenge, which is the diminishing labour for that we've been having over the last 15 years.

spk_1:   2:31
Yeah, you were talking before we

spk_2:   2:33
came on air. You were talking about that you faked that a global group ofpeople in your in a similar field to you and how you've been catching up for a number of years and sharing ideas and trends and also what clients are doing. And you were telling us about how different markets now are in different stages of evolution of reaction. Teo over 19. So can you tell the listeners a little bit about that?

spk_0:   2:57
So back in 2007 just private, which is great timing way

spk_1:   3:04

spk_0:   3:04
a network called One Agent on. It's a group of like minded businesses. So HR communications on DH, employed brand specialist businesses in the US, UK, right across Europe, in India, attack and had ourselves representing Australia. New Zealand. They are different sized businesses are largest member of the U. S. With 140 staff on DH, down to four or five people. Businesses in Denmark on gets a really useful group because it helps give us some indication, perhaps, of what's coming our way. It was hard to guess whether we're going to get whether we have on American or European model on. Of course, I think everyone understands we have a hybrid of the two, a cZ a Australia it has done. We have Julian influence on our culture, our personality of the country and on their business practises. So some of those things that we pick up our useful on some of them are less than useful. You know, the UK has a much higher level of quality and creativity and include branding and recurrent communications and possibly a deeper level of strategic understanding on the U. S. Is more technology driven on. But some of the some of some of the borrowed phrases were used are not that help. You know, this work praised talent pool that we've that we seem to have adopted come from probably from the U. S. Where they have at any point in time, many millions of people available to them. Words, of course, don't have that now. At the moment we have, we'll get on to the This is how the situation's currently been affected with this influx of available labour that's coming into the market now. But but having a business perspective from around the world is really useful to us in terms of how we cope with the situation, understanding which of those models is perhaps more relevant to our situation on DH, learning this phrase in our business that creativity is the art of disguising your source.

spk_1:   5:04
Wait is

spk_0:   5:06
pretty much the same in most industries. I think we'll borrow and I think in fashion they call it being inspired by Wei Qing to borrow and forest solutions from others than the time coming up with. It is a useful benchmark for us to decide what the appropriate action might be here to give a solution on. The differences are amazing with what's going on. I was on the global called three days ago on DH while we are obviously the impact of this on extreme in having an extreme effect on how we go about doing business, Private way are actually doing in comparison. But some of the other countries may

spk_2:   5:48
be the

spk_0:   5:48
European countries and the markets are being effected very different levels. So we've got to be very careful to compare ourselves to markets that are similar to our one of the one of the clear impact of this is that that the disease thrive in the cold climate. It was a Goldman Sachs report recently that have identified the majority of cases Aaron this 30 to 50 degree northern latitude across all of the European countries living. That's why we're seeing such awful situations in a destiny and now the US because it's more flu season over there and everyone's on top of each other. But the impact on our business globally has. I think there are similar traits that are coming out, and that is how organisations are responding to this, because it is very much a two speed situation that we have knowable, perhaps three speed. On the one hand, we've got the hideous storeys of industries collapsing

spk_1:   6:50

spk_0:   6:50
aviation and fatality in catering and retail yl these environments that are just being forced to close because of external impact. Then there's the businesses that are yet to fully understand what this means for them. And we're just starting to see those storeys trickling nothing overnight. A storey that KPMG are giving salary cut because, of course, KPMG and all the professional services a sizable proportion of their business is with industries that are being effect. There are some industries where there's kind of no news or emerging news now, but then there are other industries that are in absolute, packed on a panic but are effective in their ability to high right now.

spk_2:   7:32

spk_0:   7:32
mining companies on DH on go Cherie on healthcare and aged care. These organisations are finding it even more difficult to higher now because of because of the impact on labour and people's perceptions of the market, but also on social distancing way. BHP and mining companies and all of them are being effect by the border closures which which are impacting their abilities talent in and out there now having to put them up in camp on site for 14 days rather than having them coming in and out with a huge amount of change that's happening. The work groups on site a lot of the mind having to be reduced in numbers, which means ah, 40 person team is dropping to 10 but they all have to have the same skills. So in the mining world, there now tripling the amount of chippies and trainees and certain roles that they need because they have more work groups do social distance so that there are an impact on this that you're making organisations hiring more

spk_1:   8:42
and that's the

spk_2:   8:43
state's close Mike. Yesterday I think West Australia announced they're completely closing their border and no one's going to come in or go out s so the states that don't have a mining industry or don't have an industry that you know is driven by grocery or or even ah, large government presents. They probably feel the effect a little bit Mohr than some of the other states in terms of their their unemployment figures and and the labour market. Do you think

spk_0:   9:11
that's a tricky question? It will certainly hate logistics and the flood flows in and out of the state. But I don't know what overall impact that will have on unemployment levels. The job keeper announced. It was interesting

spk_1:   9:29

spk_0:   9:30
that hopefully going tio keep the real unemployment level under wraps for some time because I think these people won't pop up now is only that. But one of the problems of this is is the effect on the psyche of organisation. Wave had unemployment rate now hovering around the percent mark and dipping into the force in New South Wales Victoria which effectively has been full employment that that means people are fully aware that they need to try very hard to attract and retain people and do everything they need to do

spk_1:   10:04
well, there is but one woman did that unemployment nationally is going to hit over 10% at the moment

spk_0:   10:09
very possible. But we'll see what the job people peace does

spk_1:   10:12
that could

spk_0:   10:13
Well, that figures greatly. But my point is that the sooner we start getting up into towards double figures with psyche is well, we don't need China heart United people anymore. You know, with that people should be lucky for the great port, actually very tempting mindset to start edging towards particularly friends. You know, the accountant on the more rational and tangible people in the organisation. But of course we're not. It's not a rep presented tive unemployment rate on. They could be there to be frank. The roles that are being made available now or are being put into the marketplace are often a casual end and the semi skilled in way are seeing and there will be an impact on the skilled white collar and another ends a time bye. But what happens in times like this is the market sentiment cup its own momentum. People start understanding that the severe impact that this is the time that industries are under some more disappear

spk_1:   11:18
coming back to the covert 19 effect across globally on DH, we're talking about things like salaries being driven down in some particular areas with the fight for jobs, et cetera. So from an employment branding perspective, how is that going, Teo? Look a CZ. The candidates are all coming and fighting for jobs. How does that look at? The company is starting to push people down on salaries.

spk_0:   11:42
This's difficult. So the first thing I would say here is that these are actually extra three times. You know, there are difficult decisions that are having to be made on. We're just taking it back to the three categories we're looking at. We're looking at heavily affected industries like airlines retail. They have no choice when they really have no choice. They they are very model is threatened on DH. They have to do what they have to do. And it's almost absurd to try and calm people down in times like that, because they cannot for no reassure tha then the companies in the mental, the ones that probably don't know this yet or don't really appreciate the impact on their business. We can start talking to people about talking openly and honestly and then the top category of people that actually benefiting from this Andi got quite a few plants that were working with that moment, working with hygiene and cleaning, contracting business that specialises in the food on All of the laws change. Yeah, all of the

spk_1:   12:44
laws are now

spk_0:   12:45
required for now, changing for hygiene and claiming the same fruit factoring operations at the very same time that they can't get cleaning crews in and out of these places because of social distancing and unavailable labour pools. You know, they've been bringing people in from the Philippines and clearing cleaning teams to remote areas because they couldn't trying people to do it up to now. So that's a whole different set of problems that people are facing. So there's they're going to be three types that news here so that the organisations that are in chaos, I think it's not a lot I could do to advise them. It would be that they have problems that have over taken the ability to control information. I think it's difficult to comment on that because whatever they say will be hollow in the middle is probably the one where I think your EVP and your employer brand most comes into paper. What you've got to do is if you have been through a robust on DH company wide E v P process, where you're leadership had agreed to what we stand for, what are what are values and our purpose on our mission statement. Whatever you call it. If you're very clear about that, now's the time to me. Not that if if one of your values is transparency there now trying to be transparent, you'd need to rely on what it was agreed two years ago. Three years ago last year, whenever you did your job, what makes up the characteristics and the personality of this organisation? That's what we now need to lean back on his kind like this, that we really do need a strongly agreed and articulated the VP. So that would be my advice and the companies that are doing really well while let's get the good news out there, you know, BHP and willies and coals of interment. Tremendous Getting the good news out there and helping people understand. This is not the time to panic. There are opportunities as well as a sort of trapped in the marketplace. So the only broad advice I would give there is be true to yourself on Do understand that our actions right now we will be remembered. They will be remembered

spk_1:   14:54

spk_0:   14:56
six months when evidence is washed through. Those people will still be remembering what we're doing right now, and beauty of the Internet is that it's there in front of everyone at any time and retrieval and appointed time. It's hard to go back to a copy of the newspaper six months ago, but we can ease in the victory on nine publications. They're there forever,

spk_1:   15:18
and those angle on Glassdoor reviews don't go away.

spk_0:   15:22
The only saving grace is that there'll be very few organisations that have a positive racing on glass door. If you're what if you're one of them, that is a tremendously valuable asset,

spk_2:   15:35
and I think you're right. That got organisations need to be not only trying Teo find a way through the current crisis, but necessarily they need to be planning for the future and the bounce back which inevitably will come on DH. She was planning for that now by making sure your messaging is clear is transparent is carry on DH and is calm, and and these people will remember it. As you said in six months time, a whole workforce will remember those people who are on the fringe, and we're thinking about what their next step in their career may have been at the time. When this does change, if your company is not being honest and being caring, though, they'll jump ship persons look atyou. So there's lots of work to be done within talent, acquisition and HR teams right now around retaining the staff and looking after the staff you have.

spk_0:   16:23
Well, it isn't really on the two passes. The 1st 1 is that prior to this event, the average time our higher in Australia for white Colorado's with 68 days,

spk_2:   16:33

spk_0:   16:34
Just Google that, and you'll find out over a dozen references to that number. Then it was seemed to be the reason to be robust. Piece of research that was done around 2016 68 ate too much, you know, that's timeto higher. That's not time to product Timothy that timeto high that getting that person in a chair faring, confused, cleared a computer screen is not working because I haven't come up with an email address.

spk_1:   17:03

spk_0:   17:04
productivity's is probably 2 to 3 times that. So if we're looking at any coming, it is you're looking at a female engineers. So you're looking at geologists. You're looking at Paice and developers. Every organisation has critical roles that take 3 to 6 even longer month just a higher

spk_1:   17:26

spk_0:   17:26
and be productive on DH. Some organisations have always on strategies glassy and are always looking for people like you, so sometimes organisations. If you know that that role is business critical on, you know it's going to take six months to fill the role on you gotta roll open now and we are suspecting this is going to take six months to wash through those things can each other out.

spk_1:   17:50

spk_0:   17:50
looking right now because by the time this comes out,

spk_1:   17:53
the companies

spk_0:   17:54
that the company could have stayed the course on held the line are the ones that will come out of. This will be the ones with the team's ready to leave the cave. You know, that's not opinion, that jewel piece of information. So I would encourage all the people to look at, Look at these roads. There are roles in the organisation that you just can't afford to stop hiring right now. Now that counted by the fact that potentially people are going to be a little more nervous about about looking paroles or moving jobs. At the moment, if you've got a job that okay on, you've got reasonable job security. It's a big risk to jump somewhere else where there could be a job security in this. It means more money at this. So I think you'll find that the top quality talent, the ones that people keeping Onda most relatives are relevant to the current environment. They're going to be hard to share because they won't want to take a big risk in this state. So your recruitment ad on your recruit a messaging is gonna have to work even harder on. That's when you're going to be relying on a strong and robust, transparent on DH believable and competitive EVP message. Because this time people are really going to be scratching the paint. You know, there's the white paint under the blue paint on this. Is it true? You think that's going to come out at the moment?

spk_1:   19:19
Very, very very correct on that. I was speaking to a client yesterday and he just put an offer out to somebody to start on the first of August. And that person has signed up, ready to go. And he said, I'm still interviewing. I want Maura. I've got multiple roles, but no one will be starting before mid July on. Did you find me the people

spk_0:   19:40
wearing a lot of Andi? Other thing at the moment, If you are, what are the available media channels? Teo,

spk_1:   19:51
they are

spk_0:   19:52
not going to court cause you stress they are two different ends there. Obviously the job boards which are going to be inundated. Now you have, We're we're hearing people. Single roll is getting thousands of applications. He thought six months ago 200 applications of annoying for one bowl. Well, try and try and find who you're looking for amongst 1000 applications. That it becomes

spk_1:   20:15
brings the

spk_0:   20:16
hardened proceed more pressure on teams, Teo and you run that you know he do run the risk of losing the right one in the cacophony of noise. So it is going to impact the ability of some of the reports to deliver the quality that people still need tha the other end. We're being impacted in terms of what media were being able to engage with goingto isolation. What? I don't get this review every Friday morning from the newsagent to People Way won't be buying ads on outdoor sites because very few people are

spk_2:   20:51
going to

spk_0:   20:52
drive past them. It is changing the needle landscape as well. So taking our message to the right people in Aceh spoke and focus the way of possibly going to become critically important now getting to the getting to your target with a strong, compelling message on DH not being flooded with 1000 people. So you're going to wait through there to get to talk to this person has become increasingly, this is becoming a quality day now rather than a contrary game which which Tio Tio had formed into over the years.

spk_1:   21:26

spk_0:   21:27
you know, they think about 20 years ago we've run an ad in a very expensive piece of media that we know went to a very small group of people on DH with the phone would ring and we'd get letters and things and Wade have a choice of 45 ready to people. That's the reality Now is that way. Have toe put X's stream, the expensive technology pieces into cope with all of the response we're getting because it's not relative. We're in a very different world now on DH recruitment should be equality, not, of course, you know there is a recruitment that needs to be done, but it's still qualities in the quality of the end of the day. Andi think what will happen, I hope, is that this war forces to go back to a quality approach. Teo.

spk_1:   22:15
Very good point. Actually, I've even noticed my add a couple of ads that I got up at the moment for working rolls. Thie amount of people applying on. It's even a lot of people just hoping they get a shot at it and then not even qualified for the role. Just, I think, some desperation out there at the moment, which is quite unfortunate.

spk_2:   22:34
I spoke to a very large organisation that had one add up last Saturday and they've got over 12,000 responses. What, 12,000? So isn't that National National Role National Company, But there are a lot of active candidates in the market now, more than for a very, very long time. But I agree with what you're saying there, Mike, in terms of the passive, what traditional passive candidates. So people that you either head hunted and actively pursued who in another role they're going to be much harder to get across the line because they will get their rancour in and and you know better the devil, you know, for right now, because there's some stability and safety and a supposed to jumping into the marketplace and that will pivot again. You know, as we turn like you said before, how you're treating your stuff now. And I's going to impact when this does turn around, whether they will stay or not, so that there will be another pivot. But at the moment we're in a market of a highly saturated active candidate as opposed to the passive ones, which I generally where that quality pieces. So hopefully there's some light at the end of the tunnel for that one.

spk_0:   23:38
Yeah, look, these horrible storeys 1000 cars this way. Don't ever do this again, but to be brutal or to be focused on on our profession, we do have to deliver results We do have to get messages in front of people that we want to talk. Teo get harder and harder way their way through the rest of the

spk_1:   23:59

spk_0:   24:00
but it also changes people's reaction. Teo treatment off the our job seeking or even being open Teo messaging. So you know people. One thing we learned a long time ago way those Q R code on through Outdoor Advertising Way came across this through trial, and everybody is airport advertising for employees, branding rolls and just generic expressions of interest. We put the Archos on the people, of course, travel to airports that hears, and we're colleagues. The last thing you want to do is hold up a phone socket on recruitment ad and give the game away that your

spk_1:   24:38
interest in other

spk_0:   24:41
people, I think, in all the people that have kept their old still have their roles, are going to be very shy about being seen to be commencing adultery for their employer.

spk_2:   24:51
In the moment,

spk_0:   24:53
it is going to change the way we we treat on DH, behave and act with with job seeking mechanism. So the more subtle we can be in delivering messages to people that way. Have a smooth programmatic advertise when we deliver banners, talent, audience, we count. We profile the talent but you're looking for. And then we deliver banners. The website they look at every day

spk_1:   25:19

spk_0:   25:20
their life that they use for business that they used for for their industry on for their profession so much more subtle way of advertising than having someone looking through a whole raft of jobs. I think that that would be that would be one of the changes that we see now is people not being over the job seekers.

spk_1:   25:41
That's very true, actually. Better the devil we know in the immortal words of Kylie Minogue, tell

spk_2:   25:48
us about your experience. You I know you had a catch up with some of your peers and colleagues globally over the last week or so. So tell us at what stage in different markets are you mentioned specifically France. You mentioned Hong Kong so tell us a little bit about what's going on in other markets around their their level of confidence and their level of return from from what's affecting us globally at the moment.

spk_0:   26:14
Yeah, so now, bearing in mind, this is a very smoke industry. So coming at it from a Justin employer branding and Annie VP activity basis call we had with a rolling East West course. So I started being the latest in the day. I always get there on at midnight. Andi started talking about the early impact we've seen and the fact that Australia is explaining from Australia is actually a little bit like Europe. Were not one country like America. All the different states have the ability to react differently. To this is we're now perhaps Germany and Victoria might the Briton and wind rain could be related to our other parts of Europe. So

spk_1:   26:57
Australia is definitely Britain with Brexit e

spk_0:   27:04
On have been

spk_1:   27:05
this's their third Crockett succession. I think s

spk_0:   27:12
so That's the first thing to say that we are having a mixed reaction, but we do reasonably well. The health or the impact of the health scared we've been fairly decide about across the country way are possibly because of the nature of our sister population. We've probably got a head start, you know, we're not like Italy, where we all live in 20 square, needed

spk_1:   27:33
apartments and

spk_0:   27:34
get out each night hugging, kissing and cover each other in saliva. You know that that is in Australia. We are not a high density population where this think spread rapidly before control could take over. So in some ways, way feel a bit more isolated from this you are a little busted or not related. Maybe that is false hope. So far so good. So far, Not so bad that some of the other countries way then went on to be handed overto Our partners in Hong Kong, Singapore and sharing hi on day in fact, were probably the most buoyant of the whole industry of the whole global group. So there that won't started back in late last year with the Hong Kong riots and social unrest, which

spk_2:   28:23

spk_0:   28:23
their market greatly on then, of course, comb. It hit in the January Fordham on. They were saying last week that there, for the first time in five months, off for five months, they're starting tohave peas and tender coming through from organisations looking to rebuild their pee in there and

spk_1:   28:40
get back

spk_0:   28:42
to the well. So the manufacturing industry has restarted. Now it remains to be seen whether they're going to have anyone to sell it to course is that

spk_1:   28:52
it's a big

spk_0:   28:52
problem that they've got. They seem to be back now into full recovery. Now that is about to two months from the peak of their contagion. You know what people, people that problem now do we believe every bit of news that comes out of China? Of course not. But it would indicate that this could be a three month cycle before we see organisations gathering up the confidence that the worst is over

spk_1:   29:23
to be

spk_0:   29:23
able to make decisions about. In fact, Churchill said it when they won the Battle of El Alamein and 40.

spk_2:   29:30

spk_0:   29:30
think this isn't the end of the war is not even the beginning of the end of the war.

spk_2:   29:35

spk_0:   29:35
could perhaps be described as the end of the beginning of the war on DH. When that point comes in the end of the beginning of thiss problem arrives. When we feel that we've got control of it, then we'll see corporate decisions becoming a little more confident. I would like to think so. But there the Indians, poor Indian state at 1.31 point four billion people, literally shut away into a battery hen farming. It closed a complete country down, so there was very little to report about India. That's going to be a very difficult situation. Then the Russians came on and Russian style that everything's fine. Way have germ. The Germans quite the Germans. Andi Frank Society. They seem to have managed problem so far better than the other European nations. That again, that they were saying that their revenue levels were about 20% 25% down on the same time last year on DH. If they were, I don't know if it was a brave face, but they were saying that the majority of their quiet, still forward thinking on then the French came on and the French was naturally blood by the country has been shut down their their revenues 80% down. And

spk_2:   31:06
he was

spk_0:   31:07
expecting he was expecting the possibility of zero.

spk_1:   31:10
Can I jump in here? Obviously Germany and France neighbours. So why the bugle difference in those numbers between two neighbouring countries?

spk_0:   31:23
I'm not a scientist, but I think you've got a look at some of the makeup of of countries. No, there's Italy and France have a tactile nature If you're in the northern France, you kiss each other ties in the south, we kissed each other three times, and that includes strangers there. They are entrenched in social customs that aren't there or other perfect environment of disease and contagion without them knowing. And it's very hard for How hard was it for Australians to give up

spk_2:   31:54
on the beach?

spk_0:   31:55
It's very hard for some of these thousands of year old cultures to give up on their on their behaviours on DH. That, of course, spread like wildfire. You know, even if you didn't know you're a carrier, you probably David 10 people

spk_1:   32:10

spk_0:   32:11
So I think that that's what we're seeing there. And the surgeons in cases has overwhelmed the health sector in terms, overwhelmed the economy. And it's been really we don't have any family member. But Frances absolutely devastated. Thie UK was. You tend to take a much longer term view of branding and messaging, but again there have been cases and signs of some pretty cool behaviour of Mexico in the retail sector. I'll share with you piece that came out from the last night. I'll share just around storeys around with guns and how people behave now. A ranking of the worst, the behaviour, the UK of how they responded, like their own, their own bar. This's from public opinion rather than one single platform and then the US Well, the U. S. Last. It was seven in the morning when we talked to the guy in Chicago. There, their situation is really echoed for mirrored their president. Situation has gone from a week ago being what problem to a week later being ill going once going to date, they have a 145 stark across the offices. Major problem was getting people working remotely to start with the welfare and the health of the workforce on. Then they were starting to think about what that actually means if they didn't really didn't know what it meant. And America being the hustle and bustle and tender of economic activity and energy and aspirational optimism. I meant that you know, they've got probably a shoop, Maura. She'll be right that a chief that Australians I think the gravity of it has a lot longer to hit American City in the U. S. So I haven't heard from them in 45 days now. But there they married what I was saying. Some of their have improved for them. So their hospitals and the health care sector time hire enough people there. Aviation industries just now shutting down their grocery business, Walmart there And of course, their guns, shores and

spk_1:   34:26
other areas going through the roof. You know, quite incredible the fact that there are arming themselves. E I find that strange, very strange

spk_0:   34:38
when it really isn't into into the psyche of a nation. Of course. All that all the days that the crackers there told me, Oh, Australian way. So have I think a more communities, of course. Even collaborative approach on

spk_1:   35:02

spk_0:   35:04
Well, yeah, but then when I told Wayne are covered with E didn't call it that. I think this is the one time where we actually quite like being in a nanny state.

spk_1:   35:22

spk_0:   35:23
and from the UK on DH, like here in 89 years. But there is a constant niggle of being completely over governed here, and they can't move with a winning ticket. Well, actually, we quite like that now, because what that meant is that we've we are assured off community cut cooperation with Andi. I think that's going to weigh our and what more compliant than a lot of other nations? Andi think this is probably why it was such a problem in Italy in heart because people didn't follow instruction. You know

spk_1:   35:58

spk_0:   35:59
a general indifference towards authority, whereas I think we're not strong in that position. So let's hope that through this but the Americans, I think when we spoke in the US, God hadn't really actually met the brunt of this and what it means for they. Their unemployment rate before this is 3.8% seven, which is the lowest I've ever been in history. On, of course, is probably going to go to the highest. Has been first quite some time now, and markets no one came out well. The best storey was probably

spk_2:   36:38
eyes. That is positive because, as you said, they were impacted earlier scenes showing that there is, you know, and

spk_1:   36:47
we owe it to the tunnel. I think you're trying to get out, and even if we take it

spk_2:   36:51
with a bit of grain of salt, it's that it's definite improvements across there. Now this I want to say Mike, this discussion has been absolutely fascinating, and I came into this podcast today not knowing a lot about your background or knowing what we're going to talk about today. That's not unlike any

spk_1:   37:07
other way. E. I've

spk_2:   37:09
been absolutely fascinated and particularly the message around EVP being as important in a time of when you're not hiring, as in a time of when you are hiring and how it's impacting people who are currently with the business in terms of retention, engagement and also the net for the next phase, when people are looking for their next move, making sure that you are one off the companies who are really looking after your staff and

spk_1:   37:35
and I'm going to pop you on the spot here for just one second. What are your three big takeaways from this? That an employer should be making sure that they're doing in covert times

spk_0:   37:48
three. Okay, well, I

spk_1:   37:53
would have told you on the spot with

spk_0:   37:58
1st 1 I don't know. The 1st 1 is, don't panic. Keep perspective on this and use your your knowledge that the past use the knowledge of your organisation on DH and rely on that the way this is a way of getting these things, these comparisons, these metaphors to different things. First it was the Bush fires. Then it was 9 11 Now, family's way do know that there's going to be, Oh, this isn't going to go 50 years on. It doesn't have the variables. I don't think that because the world conflict thiss we named the Chinese model is correct in two months time Way are going to be making a lot more positive decisions and have a much more positive view of the future than we do right now. Second would be relying on values as an organisation. It's time to really start showing those that way will understand. That's the what the how and the why of organisations way know what we do. How we're doing is changing at the moment with social distancing and the other impacts of this. But don't forget the white. Why are we doing? Why are we? Here is an organisation of what purpose do we serve? If you can keep hold of that, it will help inform a lot of the decisions you're making on DH One would be there so many possibly be the opens thunder. This is the time when things are going to change on. But I think it's going to open up the mindset of a lot of people to be more open. Teo, looking at this business is being a qualitative going, not a quantitative. Getting this is not about arriving at work on Monday morning or everybody turning on the and watching what flashes through the thistle now be about how do I reach the talent that I need to reach? I either bad available with the resources that I had, So it could be that we have seen the start of a change in the make up of Australia. Tell sure, oven out 1000 call centre rolls being brought back from the Philippines. We're hearing of organisation looking to re re purpose and rebuild their info here in Australia, which is going to change for the good. You know how

spk_1:   40:21
refreshing will

spk_0:   40:22
talk from a large organisation. Five

spk_2:   40:30
positive changes that that will come out of this. But there's also changes that none of us even know yet, right? So So I think tha discussion today with you might bean amazing food for thought it and I think as this progresses and way. Stay in our few more months of isolation. We'd love to get you on again. Teo, give us an inside and updates on how things are progressing.

spk_1:   40:54
You, Khun b the finger on the pulse for us globally. Think that,

spk_2:   41:02
Mike. And we're going to finish up now. Today. So it's a goodbye from May Onda Goodbye for me. And thanks again, Mike. And we speak you all real soon. Thank you.

spk_1:   41:11
Bye. Thanks for listening to Tar Pod. Please don't forget to subscribe and look out for upcoming podcast. Well, I'm definitely going to hear it The recon verse piece up, And then I'm going to definitely make it to the Sydney one as well. Yeah, I I'm onto our Lauren's on tour. I'm catching up with everybody and it's going to be good